For the first time, Yaron Yadan's fascinating story is now available in English subtitles (there is some background noise but all-in-all a decent-quality video):
On his Daat Emet website, there are many fascinating articles in English as well.
Highly recommended.
It's all very interesting, however I'm wondering why he doesn't identify which kollel he was the dean of. This is after all a major part of his credentials.
ReplyDeleteSecondly, after all of endless writing and speaking, it seems pretty clear that orthodox Jews are actually on the average happier than atheists
http://hal-ens.archives-ouvertes.fr/docs/00/56/61/20/PDF/wp200901.pdf
Additionally, orthodox Jews are on the average more peaceful and sober
http://www.torahphilosophy.com/2008/09/orthodox-jewish-crime.html
and kinder
http://www.torahphilosophy.com/2008/09/judaism-to-rescue.html
than most other people.
And you may find that science contradicts atheism more than it contradicts Judaism.
http://www.torahphilosophy.com/2011/11/science-versus-atheism.html
To me, Yadan, whoever he is, is just a lot of hot air reassuring hedonists and addicts that they are really OK.
as usual JP does not want to address his points, but wants to know "which kollel" he was in....typical
ReplyDeletefurther, i bet you palestinians and israeli arabs would not agree that observant jews are "kinder, peaceful"!! LOL - and i guess you have never been to boro park, bnei brak or lakewood if you say they are sober and kind! LOLOL
the question i would ask yadan would be HOW did he convince his wife and finally escape the cult...i know it took him 3 years, but what was his method, and what would be his advice to others that find themselves in simlar situations....STUCK in a backwards, (obviously) man made cult-like religion.
JP: If it is true that religious people are, on average, happier human beings, this does not necessarily make Judaism true. It would also count for other religions and has no bearing on the truth of anything. It just means that religious people have a crutch that non-religious don't have.
ReplyDeleteYaron claims to have been Rosh Hakolel in a kolel in Rechasim where he learnt: http://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D7%93%D7%A2%D7%AA_%D7%90%D7%9E%D7%AA
It actually means that atheists are missing a vital part of life which monotheists do have.
ReplyDeleteThe article points out that others claim that he was turned down for the position of dean of the kollel and due to that disappointment left Judaism.
JP: Lots of wishful thinking there: There is a correlation between religion and happiness that could just be the sheer bliss of an imaginary friend.
DeleteYaron: Perhaps it was because of not getting the position but that is really an unlikely reason to go OTD. In any case, this has no bearing on his arguments which you haven't even started addressing.
From Scientific American:
Deletehttp://blogs.scientificamerican.com/streams-of-consciousness/2012/04/12/can-atheists-be-happy-and-other-answers-from-scientific-american-mind/
Can Atheists Be Happy? Being religious confers big benefits. Time and again, studies have shown that people who have a religious faith are more likely to be healthy and happy than those who lack one. Religious people may even live longer. Go to church and you could outlive your atheist friends by a good seven years, as we report in this issue (see “Healthy Skepticism,” by Sandra Upson). Yet doctors don’t counsel patients to take up Christianity, say, as a way of beating back mental or physical distress. Even if such advice were socially acceptable, it wouldn’t work. Most people can’t just go out and find religion if the idea hadn’t resonated with them before. But finding out the secret ingredients behind religion’s powerful effects might reveal something that could be prescribed.
One clue: religion makes the biggest difference for well-being in places where life is hard, suggesting the belief system, or the camaraderie that accompanies it, provides support when times are tough. But if you are affluent, and things are going well, you may be perfectly happy without this psychological safety net, studies show. Being religious also seems to be most beneficial if you live among mostly religious people, indicating it is way of fitting in socially. In countries where few people believe, the psychological benefits of faith disappear.
Happiness and religion studies are likely skewed:
Deletehttp://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-human-beast/201102/does-religion-make-people-happier
What would really be interesting would be to interview Yadan's seven kids. They must today range in age from 14 to 30. Would they consider him to be a model of love for humanity? A wonderful, loving father? Or not so much?
ReplyDeleteWhy don't you ask him? You can write to him: daatemet@netvision.net.il
Delete"he already dumped her"
ReplyDeletehow do you know she didnt dump him? surely divorce does not simply occur becasue he is no longer frum. divorce rate is skyrocketing in the orthodox community is is VERY common....
also, why would leaving the frum community and pulling your children out of this cult not make you a "wonderful, loving father" you are a mixed up old man, confusing things...one has nothing to do with the other.
further, JP claims that orthodox jews are happier TODAY than other people in the world - that is TODAY, but what about years past? If you know anything of jewish history, i would bet that orthodox jews during many generations were less happy than the average joe
UK - What an incredible talk. VERY eye-opening, and a great window into a world that secular people do not generally have access to. Thanks so much for posting.
ReplyDeleteYou'll probably find the Protocols of the Elders of Zion even more eye opening.
ReplyDeleteYadan wanted to be an orthodox Jewish leader. When that failed, he switched to trying to be an anti- orthodox leader.
ReplyDeleteHe reminds me a lot of Joseph Cohen.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DabIO_gwRgo
Lots of speculation and ad hominem attack, nothing new under the sun for jp...
ReplyDeleteWhat's Yadan got? Some pot shots at the Talmud that have been around for centuries? Has he ever bothered to think about how much sense evolution makes?
ReplyDeleteJP: If you are not sure what Yaron has got to say, just go over to his website on http://daatemet.co.il/ where your favorite topics (atheism, evolution) are only marginally discussed. More emphasis is on mistakes in the Torah and Chazal. Now, 'zeel gmor' ;)
ReplyDeleteThe kolel in Tiberias was called 'Aderet Tiveryah' and in Rechasim 'Sha'arim Metzuyanim Bahalacha'.
I think that emotionally, the biggest challenge for atheists begins about age 40. Each year one become weaker, uglier and sicker until finally one dies. The only thing an atheist can do to cope with this is consume alcohol and opiates or commit suicide. Life basically becomes a movie which you are no longer interested in watching.
ReplyDeleteSeriously, are you copying and pasting this into all blogs? Try to stick to the topic and then only if you have something new to say.
DeleteI'd like to post it on "all the blogs" but there seem to be only about three active anti-orthodox blogs left.
ReplyDeleteI guess that the other bloggers have either shot themselves or are strung out on heroin.
Look at the blogroll, plenty of active bloggers!
DeleteMost likely they're leading happy and productive lives, and have forgotten about you entirely.
ReplyDeleteI've heard that the people who were making those pro-gay "It Gets Better" videos - a couple of them have already killed themselves. Ex-orthodox are now working on a parallel "It Gets Besser" project. Sure! LOL!
ReplyDelete"I have heard", "I think", "I believe".
DeleteStick to the facts, I would say. I know many of these people and they very much seem to be alive!
For some reason, I'm having trouble cutting and pasting on your comment area. It's easy enough to Google this.
ReplyDeletePress CTRL+C, and then CTRL+V. Like you do all the time.
DeleteJamey Rodemeyer and Eric James Borges
ReplyDeleteOh come on, you are talking about the It Gets Better project, not It Gets BESSER: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63dQlz0LUAw
DeleteAnd there seem to be far fewer anti-orthodox blogs today compared to six years ago, and Unpious deletes my comments so that I won't corrupt their dumb little dropouts who can't be allowed to think for themselves.
ReplyDeleteThe reason definitely being that there are other platforms for ex-frum people, such as Facebook.
Delete"deletes my comments so that I won't corrupt their dumb little dropouts..."
DeleteRIIIIIIGGGGGHHHHHTTTT......thats why! LOL
" who can't be allowed to think for themselves."
I know, right? They should just listen to their rabbis and parents, thats thinking for themselves! oh wait....
ksil
I'm saying that just like the suicidal gays did It Gets Better, the suicidal drop outs are doing It Gets Besser. But it's really not getting better or besser
ReplyDeleteOh yes it is!
DeleteTry talking to some middle aged people who dropped out as kids. Listen to the divorces, depressions, addictions.
DeleteFacebook isn't the same as blogging. It's more closed and private, keeping in touch with people you already know. If dropouts are hiding in there, I guess that's an improvement.
ReplyDeleteActually, these people are not necessarily hiding but they are creating Facebook communities and are becoming socially active, organizing meetups, etc. It helps many people to come out of the closet or just to feel understood. It's a healing process mainly.
DeleteBTW: Dropouts is a really silly word. These are just people who did not want to stay in the stray jacket of Orthodox Judaism. Who were forced into something they are uncomfortable with / they think is wrong.
I'm having the problem on my iPad, which doesn't have control keys.
DeleteAnyway, apostate is more correct than drop out. And they're all hiding under some afraid to hear the truth. But we'll find them. Google "Torah Philosophy Unmasking Imposters".
I see a lot of the old bloggers have got Facebook pages. Who doesn't, so do I. But I don't think it's comparable to old time rabbi hating, God hating blogging.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, who should I try friending to get in on this healing experience? I'll heal their pants off! lol!
you youve been blogging for years now and still troll on many blogs...i am curious if you have "healed" one single person....please verify with name, etc.
Deleteyour batting average is pretty low, it seems
Oh, I'll heal them alright. I'm the Dr Phil of blogging. Just hook me up with those Facebook pages!!
Delete.000
DeleteJust as i thought!
I challenge you to address one issue that yaron yadan brings up in this video
One
I didn't bother listening to most of it. He seems to very concerned that young teenagers are "tricked" by rabbis into becoming Orthodox by promises that Orthodoxy will make them happier. Well actually, that's probably true.
Deletehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_and_happiness
http://www.adherents.com/misc/religion_suicide.html
"I didn't bother listening to most of it."
ReplyDeleteOK, then please refrain from commenting on it.
I've read his books and I've heard enough.
ReplyDeleteA lot of his arguments are about the alleged scientific ignorance of the Talmudic rabbis. We know that Darwin, who was chronically ill, believed in some completely useless quack remedies. Who in their right mind would use that as proof that evolution or atheism are bogus?
just pick one topic that he is "wrong" about. go, lets see if you can persuade anyone here that Yaron is off the mark
DeleteHe says he's a former rosh kollel who would have become a leading halachic authority. Wrong.
ReplyDeletevery persuasive argument! wow. you won me over....LOL
DeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
DeleteAHAHHAHAHaAAAajhhhaaa!!!!!
Deletehilarious
you completely and utterly destoryed all his points....um, "basically".
LOL - call it ridicule if you want, i literally laugh reading this gobbledygook
MAKE A POINT
Here's the point. Yadan keeps hammering away about how many things which the Talmudic rabbis believed would be considered scientifically inaccurate or politically incorrect today. News flash - many things Yadan believes will be considered scientifically inaccurate or politically incorrect 2,000 years from now.
ReplyDeleteJP: I deleted your latest comment. It did not address the blog post and again just had pointless blahblah and links to your blog. You say you 'glanced over' his web page but you didn't bring anything from either his video or website.
ReplyDeleteYou are close to be begeder troll which would mean I would start deleting your comments by default.
Well, I'm not surprised that heretics are afraid to hear the truth. I might punture their carefully constructed bubble of denial. I might inject some feelings of guilt into their sordid lives. It's easier to just ignore, ban, censor, protect your crazy little fantasies.
ReplyDeleteNope, I am not afraid to hear any arguments. But stick to the subject instead of trying to divert any post with statements about atheists and evolution.
ReplyDeleteIt's pretty clear that is is why the entire anti-orthodox blogosphere has shut down. I guilt bombed them.
DeleteNow that was really funny, JP! :P
DeleteWatched all 7 videos on shabbos. His experience with religion mirrors my own in many ways.
ReplyDeleteHi 'Zibble', are you in Israel or the US? Feel free to contact me at undercoverkofer@gmail.com.
DeleteThank you so much for the link to all the videos with the english subtitles! What an amazing man! I had to watch the whole thing tonight.
ReplyDeleteGlad you liked it!
Delete