Why Debating is a Debatable Exercise

Ever tried to argue on the Internet with a frum person? Whether it’s a guy like Amnon Yitzchak or JP, it usually doesn’t get you anywhere.

Here’s 3 reasons why.

1. Cognitive dissonance

Just imagine you would have to be open for suggestions that challenge your current belief system. It potentially could mean that you would have to revise this belief system and, ultimately, your comfortable way of life. There’s too much at stake for your average kiruv clown to even start considering the option of the other person being right: It may lead to the disintegration of the family or financial insecurity.

Now, just because I see this question coming: these are same reasons why skeptics like me decide to stick to their current lifestyle (at least, for the moment). However, there is an important difference: at least skeptics are willing to listen to what the other guy has to say. What you do with that information is for you to decide.

But there are more interesting reasons why it doesn’t pay to debate religion with the religious…

2. You stick to the original information

In Why You Think You’re Never Wrong (and What to Do About It), Lifehacker quotes a Scientific American article called Lingering Lies (note: you have to pay for the full article):

Once an idea enters your mind it's hard to get rid of it. Even after you've been proven wrong and know that you are, your brain is wired to stick with the original information. It even influences you subconsciously. This makes it exceptionally difficult to actually feel wrong even when you know you are. Scientific American has the explanation of this phenomenon:

Psychologists asked college stu­dents to read an account of an ac­cident involving a busload of elderly passengers. The students were then told that, actually, those on the bus were not elderly. For some students, the information ended there. Others were told the bus had in fact been transporting a college hockey team. And still others were warned about what psychologists call the continued influence of misinformation-that people tend to have a hard time ig­noring what they first heard, even if they know it is wrong-and that they should be extra vigilant about getting the story straight.

This is one of the reasons why it is so difficult to shake of the frum belief system.

3. Debating only strengthens beliefs

Now don’t get me wrong here. I am not saying that their arguments are better so we’d better stay out of their way. Quite the opposite.

As the author of You Are Not So Smart argues in a post called The Backfire Effect:

Once something is added to your collection of beliefs, you protect it from harm. You do it instinctively and unconsciously when confronted with attitude-inconsistent information. Just as confirmation bias shields you when you actively seek information, the backfire effect defends you when the information seeks you, when it blindsides you. Coming or going, you stick to your beliefs instead of questioning them. When someone tries to correct you, tries to dilute your misconceptions, it backfires and strengthens them instead. Over time, the backfire effect helps make you less skeptical of those things which allow you to continue seeing your beliefs and attitudes as true and proper.

It is the same reason why you double-check your weighing scale if the weight seems to high but you never double-check it if it tells you that you lost some weight.

Tachles: If someone is wrong and passionately believes he is right, not only are your chances small you will win the argument, but you may end up strengthening his opinions.

Our Local Vaad Hatznius

My son had a siddur party at the kindergarten some monts ago. I find these parties odd; why celebrate the fact that a child receives a siddur if they anyway don’t teach them what they are praying about? Why make such a fuss about some practise that is post-biblical anyway?

At least my son had a good time.

But that’s not what I wanted to write about.

After the party, one of our neighbors (let’s call her lady X) complained that there were women at the party that did not wear any head covering. Now, lady X is really worried about her husband who can’t chas veshalom come to these occasions with untznius women. The fact that these women wear skirts and do not show any cleavage is somehow not what counts. It’s the sexy, uncovered hair of course!

Last week, we received a letter stating that since our kindergarten is Chinuch institution linked to our synagogue, we are kindly requested to be dressed appropriately when bringing our children to kindergarten, especially when it comes to head coverings. All phrased neutrally, as if there were men without head coverings as well.

Needless to say, I was outraged by the letter. Especially since I know that Lady X is very close to two of the three women that signed the letter. The fact that the letter was sent just a few days before the end of the school year only adds more suspicion that lady X was involved since the farewell party is the only thing still happening until the end of the year.

Now why can’t they just be grateful that the less frum people send their kids to their fundamentalist kindergarten? Don’t they realize they are just estranging people from Judaism?

What upset me most was this veil of halacha used. As if God wants you to be dressed in kindergarten the same way you are in shul just because it is a chinuch institution linked to our shul.

Perhaps I should come next time in my tallis. The idiots.


Update: Last time was still mixed, but now it was separated! Also, all the ladies that did not wear a head covering last time, decided to come without one. Bravo! The funniest is that my son danced with a girl from his class as part of the act. Tsss...tsss...past nisht! :P