You don't really know and just have an assumption. Perhaps he is not wearing a yarmulka because he is embarassed and thinks he is causing a chilul hashem? Or perhaps some people told him to take it off?
1. She's nothing like the perpetrator. 2. She even sends her son to a Yeshiva now. 3. The fact that he accepted treif food makes him a sinner, but does NOT in any way shape or form prove or even indicate that he's an atheist.
This is purely a reflection on Feldman. It can't be used to generalize about people who belong to any group.
Leiby's killer never renounced Orthodox Judaism so far as we know. Therefore he can't reliably be called an apostate. Therefore a comparison to Feldman is specious.
Some BTs also talk like frummies after only a few years of having seen the 'light'. She mentioned that she read literature already for a few years, so I am not surprised.
She is currently working on the first novel in a series about crime in the Hasidic community that is based on real-life characters and events, and is due out from Soho Press in Autumn 2012.
http://www.deborahfeldman.com/about-me.php
She should become a full time consultant for stormfront.org
Regarding Levi Aron you have a man who, according to media reports, one day is wearing a yarmulke and praying with orthodox Jews at his workplace and the next day is in jail with no yarmulke and requesting not kosher food. Besides the fact that he killed a kid in order avoid a kidnapping indictment.
I could use that as a good example of why the orthodox community needs to identify, publicise and ostracise secret atheists, not as proof that Hasidic Jews are too isolated or something.
Let's face it. Typical story. He got on the web, became a secret atheist and then, tragically, he used his phony orthodox appearance to kidnap a poor handicapped child, who he then brutally killed thinking that would avoid prosecution for kidnapping. It would have too, had there not been all those surveillance cameras out there, unknown to him.
He's definitely not one of these people who is really orthodox (so called) but gets arrested for some financial crimes, or even sexual crime, while continuing to keep kosher and pray, etc in prison.
JP, I think it is fair to say that Leiby's killer was a raving lunatic. not that he shouldn't spend the rest of his life in prison.
it's not relevant to debate his belief system. i like your writing, but I think it's not mentschy to "do the JP thing" on this tragic subject. We all screwed up -- this fellow got a hold of an innocent child, and we all owe it to children to do better. Amen. tuvia
I think we need to be vigilant about members of the community whose minds have been poisoned by internet atheism. They may do anything, as we see in this case.
It's interesting that she mentions the Ketzky murder. The perpetrator was apparently a drop out like herself.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.torahphilosophy.com/2011/08/baby-killer-and-secret-atheist.html
ReplyDeleteYou don't really know and just have an assumption. Perhaps he is not wearing a yarmulka because he is embarassed and thinks he is causing a chilul hashem? Or perhaps some people told him to take it off?
DeleteYour whole life seems to be based on assumptions.
1. She's nothing like the perpetrator.
ReplyDelete2. She even sends her son to a Yeshiva now.
3. The fact that he accepted treif food makes him a sinner, but does NOT in any way shape or form prove or even indicate that he's an atheist.
I'm just pointing out that it's not the orthodox but rather the apostates from orthodox such as herself who seem to be dangerous.
ReplyDeleteIf I write a book "Unorthodox: the Threat to Society from Former Hasidic Jews" will I get on talk shows?
By the way, some people weren't thrilled with this interview
ReplyDeletehttp://www.debbieschlussel.com/47266/abc-view-hags-attack-orthodox-jews-flashback-walked-out-when-oreilly-said-muslims-did-911/
Some were!
DeleteThere were also a number of OTD people who were very upset with her book and believe it contained numerous falsehoods.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.unpious.com/2012/02/“roundtable-discussion”-“unorthodox”-by-deborah-feldman/
This is purely a reflection on Feldman. It can't be used to generalize about people who belong to any group.
Leiby's killer never renounced Orthodox Judaism so far as we know. Therefore he can't reliably be called an apostate. Therefore a comparison to Feldman is specious.
He was a hidden apostate.
ReplyDeleteIt simply boggles the mind that there isn't a trace of her Satmar past in either her accent or her body language. Very unusual.
ReplyDeleteSome BTs also talk like frummies after only a few years of having seen the 'light'. She mentioned that she read literature already for a few years, so I am not surprised.
DeleteShe is currently working on the first novel in a series about crime in the Hasidic community that is based on real-life characters and events, and is due out from Soho Press in Autumn 2012.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.deborahfeldman.com/about-me.php
She should become a full time consultant for stormfront.org
Regarding Levi Aron you have a man who, according to media reports, one day is wearing a yarmulke and praying with orthodox Jews at his workplace and the next day is in jail with no yarmulke and requesting not kosher food. Besides the fact that he killed a kid in order avoid a kidnapping indictment.
ReplyDeleteI could use that as a good example of why the orthodox community needs to identify, publicise and ostracise secret atheists, not as proof that Hasidic Jews are too isolated or something.
Who says he is an atheist? Not everyone that 'sins' is an atheist. Comes to show that your assumptions are once again fishy.
Delete"Who says he is an atheist?"
ReplyDeleteOh yeah, he's really loaded with a fear of God.
Let's face it. Typical story. He got on the web, became a secret atheist and then, tragically, he used his phony orthodox appearance to kidnap a poor handicapped child, who he then brutally killed thinking that would avoid prosecution for kidnapping. It would have too, had there not been all those surveillance cameras out there, unknown to him.
Assumption, assumption, assumption.
DeleteJP is correct....Leiby's killer was not a true Scotsman :-) (Hamavin Yavin)
ReplyDeleteHe's definitely not one of these people who is really orthodox (so called) but gets arrested for some financial crimes, or even sexual crime, while continuing to keep kosher and pray, etc in prison.
ReplyDeleteThere's something else going on here.
Believing anything Feldman says is a much bigger leap of faith.
ReplyDeleteWhy should I believe everything she says? At least I don't build any castles in the sky like you do.
DeleteJP, I think it is fair to say that Leiby's killer was a raving lunatic. not that he shouldn't spend the rest of his life in prison.
ReplyDeleteit's not relevant to debate his belief system. i like your writing, but I think it's not mentschy to "do the JP thing" on this tragic subject. We all screwed up -- this fellow got a hold of an innocent child, and we all owe it to children to do better. Amen.
tuvia
I think we need to be vigilant about members of the community whose minds have been poisoned by internet atheism. They may do anything, as we see in this case.
ReplyDelete