tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2754002607205877740.post7846289026389498898..comments2023-10-03T10:52:05.047+02:00Comments on Undercover Kofer: Another Great Article About AtheismUndercover Koferhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00194328471722983693noreply@blogger.comBlogger22125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2754002607205877740.post-15204246217703386642012-01-01T17:16:34.806+01:002012-01-01T17:16:34.806+01:001) The argument of the definition of atheism by JP...1) The argument of the definition of atheism by JP is specious. Atheism as a concept is the obverse of theism. To argue that atheism must have the same exact construct as theism misses the essential point: atheism is not theism.<br />2) Ironic point: an historic use of the insulting use of atheist was aimed at the growing sect of "the Way" (i.e. Christianity) in ancient Rome. They were atheists because they believe in only one God!Samnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2754002607205877740.post-9884635581560487662011-11-17T09:54:08.480+01:002011-11-17T09:54:08.480+01:00"Can you define your God in a way that others..."Can you define your God in a way that others will agree?"<br /><br />Jewish beliefs are pretty well defined.<br /><br />http://www.ou.org/torah/rambam.htm<br /><br />"I think atheists pretty darn well know that they don't accept any god in their lives and all understand what it's about."<br /><br />So it's a secret society, they can't tell me what they believe but they know.<br /><br />Atheists don't want to delve into their beliefs because all of sudden that would level the playing field and open them up to criticism and ridicule. Well, I'm leveling it anyway.<br /><br />"And leave behind my wife, kids and family, being a cast out?"<br /><br />You think your the first person in history to get divorced? You'll be surprised how little anyone will care.<br /><br />"Tova: You forget you actually made phone calls?"<br /><br />I made one phone call to her mother who didn't want to speak to me. In Tova-land anyone who disagrees with her is guilty of some kind of "harassment". She's a very sick woman - angry, depressed, living for free with her poor orthodox mother while raging against Judaism. Probably alcoholic, suicidal, possibly sexually abused by her deadbeat homeless ex-orthodox father who is well known as a nut-case in their neighborhood. jewish philosopherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17987540457195983665noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2754002607205877740.post-10009413770863763202011-11-17T06:25:15.032+01:002011-11-17T06:25:15.032+01:00If they can't define it then the word "at...If they can't define it then the word "atheism" is just gobbledegook.<br /><br />Can you define your God in a way that others will agree? I think atheists pretty darn well know that they don't accept any god in their lives and all understand what it's about.<br /><br />"Just leave". Easier said than done. And leave behind my wife, kids and family, being a cast out? I can tell you plenty of horror stories of people who went through it. I am not ready for that kind of abuse. I think I will eventually be able to lead a marginally Jewish life as secular as people, keeping a few things I find meaningful. Like mesorati, as a middle way. Who knows.<br /><br />Tova: You forget you actually made phone calls?! How convenient to forget you stalked her.Undercover Koferhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00194328471722983693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2754002607205877740.post-54690403174258406702011-11-16T22:18:59.499+01:002011-11-16T22:18:59.499+01:00"regardless how you define it."
If they..."regardless how you define it."<br /><br />If they can't define it then the word "atheism" is just gobbledegook.<br /><br />The "atheism isn't a religion" claim is a very weak attempt to make themselves sound unique and superior. Nice try.<br /><br />"got stuck in our lives the way it is now"<br /><br />Just leave. I bet you'll be surprised how little anyone will care.<br /><br />"Point in case: Tova."<br /><br />She publishes articles on the Internet denigrating my religion and allows people to comment on those articles. I made some critical comments. I'm not sorry. That was her choice to open herself to criticism. If it bothers her, she can just disable comments. jewish philosopherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17987540457195983665noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2754002607205877740.post-41011586884010510482011-11-16T22:00:49.457+01:002011-11-16T22:00:49.457+01:00I don't find your definition of biblical god c...I don't find your definition of biblical god convincing at all and your redefining the biblical god a cop-out. They don't believe in ANY god, regardless how you define it.<br /><br />Just by repeating I am a coward makes your argument louder but doesn't make your argument any more convincing. In short: since we were indoctrinated to be frum Jews and got stuck in our lives the way it is now, because of the abuse of so many frum Jews around me, amongst other things, I am forced to stay anonymous. <br /><br />And, of course, to protect myself from stalkers like you who like to harass people in real life. Point in case: Tova. Need I say more?Undercover Koferhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00194328471722983693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2754002607205877740.post-23826693490184620352011-11-16T21:35:17.207+01:002011-11-16T21:35:17.207+01:00"Since there is no proper definition for god,..."Since there is no proper definition for god, atheism is meaningless"<br /><br />Your definition is. That's why it's wrong.<br /><br />"What about the Sikh god?"<br /><br />They believe in the Biblical God.<br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mul_Mantra#The_text_of_the_Mul_Mantar<br /><br />By "Biblical God" I mean an eternal, all knowing, all powerful creator of the universe. This concept originated in the Torah.<br /><br />"Non-religious people are generally tolerant to religious people,"<br /><br />Really? News to me.<br /><br />http://bocesjustice.blogspot.com/<br /><br />Anonymous bloggers are cowards.<br /><br />http://jewishphilosopher.blogspot.com/2009/08/why-i-dont-respect-anonymous-bloggers.htmljewish philosopherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17987540457195983665noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2754002607205877740.post-76169750574166373272011-11-16T21:03:22.062+01:002011-11-16T21:03:22.062+01:00OK, so let me try to follow this 'logic': ...OK, so let me try to follow this 'logic': Since there is no proper definition for god, atheism is meaningless. Then why do you call atheism a religion instead of dismissing it as unusable terminology? Instead, you change its definition into including only the biblical god. What about a god in the Koran? What about the Sikh god? Any gods of current polytheistic religions? Your definition is even more useless.<br /><br />In any case, your definition of 'the atheist religion' is even more of a joke.<br /><br />As to anonymity: It's very simple. Non-religious people are generally tolerant to religious people, as long as they don't bother them. So religious people don't need to protect their identity. The other way around is, unfortunately, not the case.Undercover Koferhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00194328471722983693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2754002607205877740.post-81003372833121070562011-11-16T10:14:03.499+01:002011-11-16T10:14:03.499+01:00And by the way I'm not cowardly hiding behind ...And by the way I'm not cowardly hiding behind Internet anonymity because I'm ashamed of revealing my identity.jewish philosopherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17987540457195983665noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2754002607205877740.post-74719212102263845032011-11-16T10:01:13.457+01:002011-11-16T10:01:13.457+01:00We are descended from flatworms according to evolu...We are descended from flatworms according to evolution.<br /><br />http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1999/03/990322062150.htm<br /><br />If Darwin believed in anything he seemed to believe in Satan not God.<br /><br />"What a book a Devil’s chaplain might write on the clumsy, wasteful, blundering low & horridly cruel works of nature!"<br /><br />http://www.darwinproject.ac.uk/entry-1924<br /><br />I have only been able to find one well documented case of an atheist who was honest, sober and had a stable family life, and he regretted being an atheist.<br /><br />http://jewishphilosopher.blogspot.com/2008/01/chandra-good-atheist.html<br /><br />Which makes sense, because why bother being an atheist if you're going to a decent person anyway?jewish philosopherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17987540457195983665noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2754002607205877740.post-9123411732741875912011-11-16T03:54:40.990+01:002011-11-16T03:54:40.990+01:00I'm well aware of the path of evolution. Your ...I'm well aware of the path of evolution. Your statement is, as usual, simplistic and inaccurate. The supposition that the spine is descended from the notochord does not mean we are "descended from worms" Even if that were an accurate statement, it is a pathway that is hundreds of millions of years in the making. If you are comforted by the belief that your primal ancestor was made of dirt, that's your choice. That would indicate you are ultimately descended from compost. Although I am not an atheist I am well acquainted with some very nice and decent people who've made that choice. They have never been fired from a job for stalking another person and disclosing the personal information of said victim's relatives on the web. They have never been expelled from school for advocating mass murder.SkepticalYidnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2754002607205877740.post-11939055651159504962011-11-16T02:53:21.416+01:002011-11-16T02:53:21.416+01:00Have you tried googling "origin of vertebrate...Have you tried googling "origin of vertebrates"? We are vertebrates you know.jewish philosopherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17987540457195983665noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2754002607205877740.post-46369321901638843742011-11-15T23:55:04.297+01:002011-11-15T23:55:04.297+01:00Fascinating how an obsessive personality repeats t...Fascinating how an obsessive personality repeats the same erroneous phrases over and over without metadata to support delusional statements.<br /><br />No one ever said we are descended from worms. That's outright false and indicates a decidedly poor knowledge of biology and taxonomy.<br /><br />Darwin was not an atheist. The Origin of Species is not a bible to anyone. Darwin was an agnostic.<br /><br />Many atheists lead perfectly normal lives and have no interest in drugs , alcohol or pornography. To declare otherwise, once again without verifiable metastudies, indicates a desperate need for attention, to be perceived as an authority figure One can't help but wonder how tragically low the self esteem of such an individual might be.SkepticalYidnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2754002607205877740.post-25652253829964612302011-11-15T21:04:45.164+01:002011-11-15T21:04:45.164+01:00If the word "god" I meaningless then &qu...If the word "god" I meaningless then "atheism" is meaningless.jewish philosopherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17987540457195983665noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2754002607205877740.post-10759649335140974822011-11-15T17:49:48.547+01:002011-11-15T17:49:48.547+01:00Interesting that for all my "insanity" n...Interesting that for all my "insanity" no one can answer my questions. Is believing that we are soulless zombies descended from worms the ultimate in rationalism.<br /><br />Religion is the opium of the people. Marx<br /><br />Opium and alcohol are the religion of atheists. JP<br /><br />Evolution is simply the atheist god, the key difference being that unlike other gods, it has no intelligence and therefore can demand nothing. How convenient.jewish philosopherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17987540457195983665noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2754002607205877740.post-38200520674994508422011-11-15T12:37:52.951+01:002011-11-15T12:37:52.951+01:00atheists do no[t] say: the existence of god(s) has...<i>atheists do no[t] say: the existence of god(s) has been disproved.</i><br /><br />It's a little more subtle. "God" is used <i>equivocally</i>, in myriad different (and often mutually incompatible) senses. There are senses of "God", such as the existence of the being named "Yahweh" in the Judeo-Christian bible, that are indeed disproved by experience. There are others, such as the postmodernist conception of God as the "ground of all being" that are unintelligible; it is actually nonsense to day they are "as yet unproven"; if we cannot discuss the concept, the notion of proving or disproving the concept is facially incoherent.<br /><br />Theologians, apologists, philosophers and other con artists have explored every possible shade and nuance of meaning and non-meaning in their millennial attempts to retain their parasitical moral, political, and economic privilege. It's not <i>atheists'</i> fault; theologians and philosophers have so muddied the meaning of "God" (and don't get me started on the rest of philosophy) that rational discussion is nearly impossible. This obfuscation seems by design: what cannot be discussed cannot be criticized; what cannot be criticized can be more easily defended on the basis of traditionalism and historicism.Larry Hamelinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08788697573946266404noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2754002607205877740.post-24539411401427502102011-11-15T12:27:56.593+01:002011-11-15T12:27:56.593+01:00I guess insults are the last defense of fools.
An...<i>I guess insults are the last defense of fools.</i><br /><br />And the first defense of wise men.<br /><br />You are correct, though: the word "God", being undefinable, is unintelligible. As Jefferson said, "ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions."<br /><br />You've given us nothing of substance to engage with; the notion that evolution is a religion, Darwin a prophet and <i>Origin</i> is scripture is beyond the unintelligible and into the terrain of the insane.<br /><br />If you want more than mockery, offer something more than nonsense and craziness.Larry Hamelinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08788697573946266404noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2754002607205877740.post-75405448190340513642011-11-15T12:02:52.774+01:002011-11-15T12:02:52.774+01:00atheists do no say: the existence of god(s) has be...atheists do no say: the existence of god(s) has been disproved.<br />they say: the existence of god(s) is as yet unproven.gntesslernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2754002607205877740.post-43399154681222458252011-11-15T10:36:11.036+01:002011-11-15T10:36:11.036+01:00I guess insults are the last defense of fools.
An...I guess insults are the last defense of fools.<br /><br />And incidentally, I realize that there were atheists before Darwin, however they were a small eccentric fringe. Until 1859, all scientists were what we would today call old earth creationists and intelligent design advocates.jewish philosopherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17987540457195983665noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2754002607205877740.post-10804651233182466052011-11-15T04:50:18.913+01:002011-11-15T04:50:18.913+01:00The nice thing about the word "philosopher&qu...The nice thing about the word "philosopher" is that <i>anyone</i>, even a complete idiot, can apply it to himself.Larry Hamelinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08788697573946266404noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2754002607205877740.post-54377019535953618772011-11-15T02:39:45.453+01:002011-11-15T02:39:45.453+01:00"atheism is a lack of belief in gods"
W..."atheism is a lack of belief in gods"<br /><br />Wrong, because no atheist can meaningfully define the word "god". Anything more powerful than humans? So would that include space aliens? Anything supernatural? The fact that the universe is expanding at an accelerating rate defies the known laws of nature, as do particles which travel faster than the speed of light? Anything with free will? <br /><br />Atheism is in fact the religion which teaches that the Biblical God does not exist and evolution created us. The founder is Charles Darwin. The holy scripture is the Origin of Species. The consumption of analgesics such as alcohol and opiates are the equivalent of prayer, providing solace.jewish philosopherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17987540457195983665noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2754002607205877740.post-50433349719092406952011-11-15T02:00:38.621+01:002011-11-15T02:00:38.621+01:00re: "I am still not sure if I believe in a de...re: "I am still not sure if I believe in a deity or not. I just know that I don't believe in organized religion"<br /><br />I'm the opposite. I tend to be very skeptical of the existence of a deity (bordering on absolute atheism, although I suppose I'm technically an agnostic because I allow for the possibility that God may exist).<br /><br />But I'm pretty sure organized religion exists, I have no doubts about that. And I'm all for it being organized. You gotta have some rules!Mikeynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2754002607205877740.post-35409097702688315412011-11-15T01:56:43.786+01:002011-11-15T01:56:43.786+01:00UK: you enjoy baiting trolls, don't you ;-)UK: you enjoy baiting trolls, don't you ;-)SkepticalYidnoreply@blogger.com