tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2754002607205877740.post2216801350964178192..comments2023-10-03T10:52:05.047+02:00Comments on Undercover Kofer: Ain’t Buying That!Undercover Koferhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00194328471722983693noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2754002607205877740.post-19184640507334066242010-05-07T09:23:41.875+02:002010-05-07T09:23:41.875+02:00Who says that Moses was the writer? Perhaps he is ...Who says that Moses was the writer? Perhaps he is just a legend and Yoshia placed him in the story to make him sound like the new Moses. But otherwise, I agree to your rant ;)Undercover Koferhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00194328471722983693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2754002607205877740.post-1302990952713182072010-05-06T07:09:41.522+02:002010-05-06T07:09:41.522+02:00perhaps the fact that the sky is not a solid firma...perhaps the fact that the sky is not a solid firmament should be realized to be proof enough that Moses (the writer of the myth) lied, that he was no better than other extremists (he murdered people for breaking the sabbath and other "crimes") and should not be regarded as a prophet, but had his story aggrandized and mythologized as hitler would have after his own death, had he been successful in his crimes.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2754002607205877740.post-80293802084813959272009-12-12T04:28:23.640+01:002009-12-12T04:28:23.640+01:00There is a nice diagram of ancient cosmology here....There is a nice diagram of ancient cosmology <a href="http://ncse.com/image/ancient-hebrew-cosmology" rel="nofollow">here</a>. As you can see, the firmament is above the clouds, and waters are above it. It makes sense if you don't know anything about the physical world beyond what you and your fellows can observe with naked eye. <br /><br />Before I saw that diagram or another like it (if you are interested: <a href="http://www.class.uidaho.edu/ngier/gre13.htm" rel="nofollow">example 1</a>, <a href="http://dustandlight.com/2009/04/11/the-gospel-according-to-ancient-near-eastern-cosmology/" rel="nofollow">example 2</a>), I had assumed that the reference to "foundations of the earth" in the Book of Job ("Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth?") was just a figure of speech. I should have known better!Miles R.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2754002607205877740.post-48446669653768482962009-12-10T21:35:33.695+01:002009-12-10T21:35:33.695+01:00(correction: Pes. 94b).(correction: Pes. 94b).Menashenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2754002607205877740.post-4074705326145182672009-12-10T21:28:58.162+01:002009-12-10T21:28:58.162+01:00For more information, see BT Pes. 94a, where the T...For more information, see BT Pes. 94a, where the Talmud spells out the cosmological model Pen T. described above. This was the ANE prevailing view of the workings of the cosmos, and is also seen in the Enuma Elish (which many believe to be a source of the Bereishis story).<br /><br />(btw, XGH has a nice post on the real meaning of Bereishis, with pictures: http://modernorthoprax.blogspot.com/2009/10/six-days-of-creation.html)Menashenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2754002607205877740.post-42448015852827019412009-12-10T15:21:31.618+01:002009-12-10T15:21:31.618+01:00PT: So you are saying that the upper waters are a ...PT: So you are saying that the upper waters are a reservoir of water? Well, let them first identify where that is. In any case, the beliefs you wrote down (nightly travels of heavenly bodies, water reservoir outside of the earth) are so outdated that they are equally outrageous.<br /><br />SB: Yes, mom! :P<br /><br />BHB: Why not scientific? These books are all written by scientists.Undercover Koferhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00194328471722983693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2754002607205877740.post-48177700632765961192009-12-10T11:39:40.804+01:002009-12-10T11:39:40.804+01:00>I try to read a lot nowadays about the Torah f...>I try to read a lot nowadays about the Torah from a more scientific perspective (DH, Finkelstein, James Kugel). <br /><br />That's great!. It may be modern and critical and certainly different. But I would not call it scientific.Baal Haboshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12861222390091673835noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2754002607205877740.post-50946199617001551532009-12-10T07:51:05.842+01:002009-12-10T07:51:05.842+01:00hey; watch with saying what other people should or...hey; watch with saying what other people should or shouldn't do. that's a slippery slope, cowboy. :)s(b.)https://www.blogger.com/profile/08633383652906692253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2754002607205877740.post-66805162807960428462009-12-10T01:00:15.604+01:002009-12-10T01:00:15.604+01:00Not at all. The firmament i,e, Rakia, can now pote...Not at all. The firmament i,e, Rakia, can now potentially be outside of the atmosphere or as high as you wish.Penhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17895596986880085446noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2754002607205877740.post-15020978374388145062009-12-10T00:55:38.893+01:002009-12-10T00:55:38.893+01:00Al achas kamma vekamma!Al achas kamma vekamma!Undercover Koferhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00194328471722983693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2754002607205877740.post-13389208148560766352009-12-10T00:54:18.132+01:002009-12-10T00:54:18.132+01:00My understanding here is that the sun and the moon...My understanding here is that the sun and the moon are within the firmament at night/day i.e. when they are visible, but they travel above the firmament through windows when not. <br /><br />The water above the firmament, was believed to have been a vast, stockpile of water which is not to be confused with clouds. Floodgates opened during the flood which gave earth direct access to these reservoirs.Penhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17895596986880085446noreply@blogger.com